4 years ago
Joel
Guest

I have a question that you can hopefully shed some light on for new. My grandpa has a gun that has been in his family for awhile, and we are trying to find out some information on it with great difficulty. It is a winchester model 1894 32-40 (lever action), serial number #282417. From what I was able to find, it is circa 1903. It has an octagon barrel, but the odd thing is is that the magazine tube is shorter than the barrel. What I would like to know is if that is an original manufacture, custom made, or perhaps someone just swapped out barrels. I didn't get the length of the barrel, but I'd guess it was a 20" barrel, with the magazine tube being a few inches shorter. Anyhow any information you can give would be much appreciated! Thanks for your time!

Posted on Winchester
Answer
4 years ago
2bit
Guru
Blogs: 6
Forum: 16,980
Votes: 387

Helo Joel,

You are makig it tough on us without some exact maeasurements and especially photos of the rifle. The easy answer is it might be original. Shorter than standard barrels from 26 inches down to 12 were available on special order and short magazines were also available. The most exact way to tell is for you to contact the Cdy Firearms Museum. The original production ledgers for rifles in your serial number range still exist and they can look up your rifle and send you a "Factory Letter" specifying the date the rifle entered and was shipped from the warehouse and it will also document the original manufactured configuration of the rifle. An example is shown below. Your rifle was avtually manufactured during 1905.

You did not have to tell us the Model 1894 rifle was lever action. All 6 million of them were!

Can you please post some good, clear, detail photos of the rifle? Do not use a white background. Green, blue or brown will do fine. Please take the rifle outdoors into bright open shade and let Mother Nature provide the light. Turn off the flash. Use the 'macro' or close up program for things like caliber stamps and barrel addresses.

Thanks
2bit/Michael

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4 years ago
Joel
Guest

Appreciate your response. Here are some pictures and some measurements. Im not exactly sure where you are supposed to measure from, but from the start of the barrel it is 19.5" in length, and the magazine is 4".

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4 years ago
Joel
Guest

pictures

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4 years ago
Joel
Guest

pictures

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4 years ago
Bert H.
Scholar
Blogs: 13
Forum: 21,639
Votes: 631

Hello Joel,

The barrel and the magazine tube have both been cut down from their original 26-inch length. I can also see clear evidence that the stocks have been sanded and refinished.

Unfortuantely, that old Model 1894 has essentially zero collector value, and it has relatively minimal value as a "shooter" (32-40 ammo is for the most part a reloading prospect only).

Serial number 282417 dates it to October of 1905.

Bert H.

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4 years ago
Joel
Guest

Hey Thanks again for your time. Unfortunately it wasn't the news we were hoping to hear, but its nice to know more about the gun and its history. Appreciate your response though! Take care.

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4 years ago
Joel
Guest

Last question I promise. What would be the reason for someone cutting the barrel and magazine?

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4 years ago
2bit
Guru
Blogs: 6
Forum: 16,980
Votes: 387

Joel,

It makes the rifle lighter and quicker to aim.

2bit

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2 years ago
32-40 Winchester
Guest

Hi Joel,

Just came upon this conversation and much of the information you were told is wrong. If you stil have the gun and want more information, let me know

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2 years ago
2bit
Guru
Blogs: 6
Forum: 16,980
Votes: 387

Hello,

Out of curiosity which information do you think is incorrect?

Michael

(Edited)

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2 years ago
Bert H.
Scholar
Blogs: 13
Forum: 21,639
Votes: 631
32-40 Winchester wrote:
Hi Joel,

Just came upon this conversation and much of the information you were told is wrong. If you stil have the gun and want more information, let me know


It is YOU that is trying to blow smoke here. The information provided to Joel is 100% accurate. Tread lightly!

Bert H.
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2 years ago
Bert H.
Scholar
Blogs: 13
Forum: 21,639
Votes: 631
2bit wrote:
Joel,

Out of curiosity which information do you think is incorrect?

Michael


Michael,

It is some person other than Joel who is making the false assertion.

Bert
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2 years ago
32-40 Winchester
Guest

Hey historian,

Not trying to rain on your parade but this in not, "sawed off" by someone looking for a lighter hunting rifle. They were made that way...

You told another guy his rifle was worth $100 and he sold it for $600 to a gun shop who then marked it up and sold it for more. Maybe, just maybe, some people know more about this rifle than you do. But if you have any for sale for "pennies", I'll be glad to take them off your hands.

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2 years ago
Joel
Guest

This is a gun that has been in the family for years, and I was just trying to find more information about it. I do believe that the initial response was accurate, but I am always welcome to more information. The actual value of it was more of out of curiosity than anything, and I'm sure whatever amount I would get for it would not make up for its sentimental value. Thanks all again for the help.

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2 years ago
Bert H.
Scholar
Blogs: 13
Forum: 21,639
Votes: 631
32-40 Winchester wrote:
Hey historian,

Not trying to rain on your parade but this in not, "sawed off" by someone looking for a lighter hunting rifle. They were made that way...

You told another guy his rifle was worth $100 and he sold it for $600 to a gun shop who then marked it up and sold it for more. Maybe, just maybe, some people know more about this rifle than you do. But if you have any for sale for "pennies", I'll be glad to take them off your hands.


To start with, I did say it was "sawed off", nor did I say it was only worth $100.

Would you like to place a wager with me concerning the subject rifle? If you have the guts to do so, name your price!

Did it ever occur to you that just maybe, I actually researched the factory warehouse ledger records at the research office at the Cody Firearms Museum?

Morons like you are just way to easy to ferret out and prove just how inept you really are. Your short tenure on this website is postive proof of your lack of knowledge.

Bert H.
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2 years ago
Bert H.
Scholar
Blogs: 13
Forum: 21,639
Votes: 631
Joel wrote:
This is a gun that has been in the family for years, and I was just trying to find more information about it. I do believe that the initial response was accurate, but I am always welcome to more information. The actual value of it was more of out of curiosity than anything, and I'm sure whatever amount I would get for it would not make up for its sentimental value. Thanks all again for the help.


Joel,

Please ignore the responses from "32-40 Winchester". His complete and total lack of knowledge concerning this topic is evidently clear to those of us who do actual research (and have written articles and books on the subject). If you have doubts what-so-ever about the information presented to you concerning your rifle, I suggest that you contact the Cody Firearms Museum (CFM) research office and purchase a factory letter.

Bert H.
Reply
2 years ago
32-40 Winchester
Guest

Okay if you didn't say it wasn't worth anything and you didn't say it was sawed off then I have nothing else to add. I guess I read it wrong. I don't doubt your expertise but this gun does have value. Sorry to offend you. I was just trying to let Joel know there was value. Maybe I read what you said wrong.

Thank you for the offer on the wager but I don't know what the bet would be on if you think the gun has value.

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2 years ago
Bert H.
Scholar
Blogs: 13
Forum: 21,639
Votes: 631

32-40...

Your original statement

Hi Joel,

Just came upon this conversation and much of the information you were told is wrong. If you stil have the gun and want more information, let me know


Exactly what is your definition of "much of the information you were told is wrong".

I stated that the barrel has been cut-down, and the magazine tube is also cut off. You (based on your previous response) told Joel that it was not... that is what I would like to place a wager on. The value of that rifle is negligible in comparison to what it would be if it was not altered. In the collector market, it has very limited interest and value. As the co-author and editor of "The RED BOOK of WINCHESTER Values" I am extremely knowledgable concerning the market values of the Model 1894.

Bert H.
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2 years ago
32-40 Winchester
Guest

Bert,

I really didn't mean to get in a quid pro quo with you. All that mattered to Joel was value and that is what I meant by, "Much of the information." I do believe that Joel may be interested in the value that someone would pay for this and in more than, "it has no collector value and little shooter value."

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2 years ago
Bert H.
Scholar
Blogs: 13
Forum: 21,639
Votes: 631
32-40 Winchester wrote:
Bert,

I really didn't mean to get in a quid pro quo with you. All that mattered to Joel was value and that is what I meant by, "Much of the information." I do believe that Joel may be interested in the value that someone would pay for this and in more than, "it has no collector value and little shooter value."


You are still missing the point...

Joel clearly stated what information he was looking for in his initial post. Did you read what he actually wrote and asked?

You interjected yourself into an old topic (1-year old) that was accurately answered. You then clearly and very pointedly disagreed with my statement that the barrel and magazine tube was cut down.

Not trying to rain on your parade but this in not, "sawed off" by someone looking for a lighter hunting rifle. They were made that way...


You are now trying to back peddle on your statement "much of the information you were told is wrong." If your only disagreement was the value, then you should have stated exactly that.

Regardless of what your intentions may have been, you made a few erronoeus accusations and statements directed towards myself and Michael. I personally do not appreciate being addressed in the manner you did. If you disagree with something I have written on these forums, make your case with being insulting, and be prepared to back it up with actual facts.

Bert H. - GVB Admin
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2 years ago
32-40 Winchester
Guest

Bert,

You retracted your own statements and have obvious self esteem issues. Have a nice life. I won't reply again.

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2 years ago
32-40 Winchester
Guest

Hi Joel,

Sorry this got mixed up in the back and forth with Guru.

The right gun dealer is likely to pay in the $400 - $500 range for it. Since it is not pre-1898, it is a tougher sale. With its condition and modifications, true collectors will not want it but with it being over 100 years old, there still is a market. It probably has way more value to your family and to you personally but just thought you should know.

Glad you didn't get rid of it because it is a great piece of history.

You can always take it into a couple of gun shops to find out what a dealer thinks it is worth too.

Reply
2 years ago
Joel
Guest

Had I known it would have come to this, I would have stated my intentions a bit more clearly. I was only curious in the value of the gun, but more than anything I wanted to know its history. As I stated, I do believe the initial responses to be accurate and I thank you for your due diligence. Take care, Joel.

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