trigger jobs

Just curious, since I was one never to mess too much with my stock firearms. I read so many reviews of firearms in mags, and on the web, and so often they say 'of course, the so and so needs a trigger job' What I want to know, (especially when it comes to long rifles and shotguns), is what constitues needing a trigger job. Is it to smooth out the pull? Increase or decrease the poundage of the pull? Shorten or Lengthen the pull? It seems more and more to be tossed around like of course it needs a trigger job. Do manufacturers not take the triggers into mind when designing the firearms? My 9mm dao sig p226, has a long heavy pull, but it is a beautiful firing weapon. Would most people say this needs a trigger job? I could not imagine a firearm, having a smoother pull then this firearm? Are too many trigger jobs being done, just for the hype of it? Maybee I am not that sensitive. I know there are firearms that have a nice feel to the trigger and some that are not so nice, but is that more a personal expression of feeling or is there a standard? Thanks for teaching me, Since I am recently retired I am starting to get back into shooting, and I feel like an amateur again, so many things have changed, but so many things have stayed the same.

Much regards Jerry

# What I want to know, (especially when it comes to long rifles and #shotguns), is what constitues needing a trigger job. Is it to smooth out the #pull? Increase or decrease the poundage of the pull? Shorten or Lengthen #the pull?

It generally makes the trigger pull smoother, crisper, sometimes lighter also, and on certain models a trigger job tunes out creep and overtravel. The better the trigger is, the easier the gun is to shoot accurately. The slightest motion caused by creep, overtravel, etc., can move the gun slightly off target during firing. Usually even the best triggers can benefit from a little judicious polishing unless it was patiently done by hand in the first place.

# It seems more and more to be tossed around like of course it #needs a trigger job. # Do manufacturers not take the triggers into mind when designing #the firearms?

It seems that manyfacturers today take the safe route and design triggers to be overly heavy so as to distance themselves as far as possible from any claims of 'hair trigger' in accidental shootings. This isn't conducive to the best accuracy, hence the popularity of trigger jobs lately. It transfers the risk of liability to the shooter and not the maker.

Also, the amount of hand work required to get a great trigger is often too costly for the manufacturer. This lets us purchase a gun a little cheaper and decide if we should spend extra for a trigger job or not. Since I do my own, I'm glad to save a few bucks.

Trigger-job is a very personal thing to folks . The need or lack of it for any particular weapon is pretty much in the mind and suitability for the purpose at hand of the user . Hype may well play a part in it as it does cost money . There is also the liability issue these days so gun companies may make things stiff enough to avoid a negligence concept in consumer minds as opposed to actual court challenges but there is that as well .If most of us shot as well as our guns were engineered I suspicion we would need a lot less trigger jobs than we do . If you think it will improve your score and it does is that really why your score improved ? Maybe . The ideal shot surprises you as it goes off . The trigger breaks like glass . This gun has a hair trigger . We hear it all the time but what does it mean ? To some it means a trigger job but then again there are items like the cz52 some of which have really bad trigger pulls . Just cleaning them often helps . Of course there are always the odd cases where a guy removes the grips dons a rubber glove and dunks a brand new S&W wheelgun (unloaded) in a bucket of kerosene and pulls the trigger a couple thousand times and likes what the pull is a lot better ! I dont think a 10 meter olympic target .22 with adjustable trigger would rate that treatment . Do we feel better about a firearm if some technician does a bit of magic he says makes it a better shooter or does it actually make a difference ? Gotta get out there and try it to see because what works for you may do nothing for somebody else . If only accurate firearms are interesting get some of your less interesting ones and get estimates for a trigger job on them and see if there is a noticeable improvement in its interest quotient . I think in some cases it will help and in others it won't . That would kinda be like most of us I think . Good luck and please let us know how it turns out ! as ever Enjoy Life

Creepy, gritty, and/or heavy trigger pulls make accurate shooting difficult. Liability concerns prompt gun makers to leave triggers heavy. Perhaps the most likely example of a good factory trigger is the single action mode of a S&W

Hi,

# What I want to know, (especially when it comes to long rifles and #shotguns), is what constitues needing a trigger job. Is it to smooth out the #pull? Increase or decrease the poundage of the pull? Shorten or Lengthen #the pull?

Besides pull weight, take-up, creep, excessive overtravel, vague letoff, and stacking are all good reasons for trigger jobs.

# It seems more and more to be tossed around like of course it #needs a trigger job.

Because, of course, it probably does.

# Do manufacturers not take the triggers into mind when designing #the firearms?

Fine manufacturers put some thought into it. For your Rems and Wins and Savages, safety/liability is pretty much the first priority, with function a distant second and nothing else on the radar. Some, like Savage, offer upgrades or custom shop triggers.

# My 9mm dao sig p226, has a long heavy pull, but it is a #beautiful firing weapon. Would most people say this needs a trigger job? I #could not imagine a firearm, having a smoother pull then this firearm?

Then leave it alone.

# Are too many trigger jobs being done, just for the hype of #it? Maybee I am not that sensitive.

Some losing competitors will blame their scores on the trigger and go on the eternal search for the ideal trigger job. For most people buying most mass-market guns, the 12 lb trigger pull it is a predominate factory defect that just needs fixing.

j.lef wrote<snip>#What I want to know, (especially when it comes to long rifles and shotguns),#is what constitues needing a trigger job.#Is it to smooth out the pull? Increase or decrease the poundage of the pull? Shorten or Lengthen the pull?

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b1pk4m%24a6l%241% 40grapevine.wam...

....as a general guideline: Trigger mechanisms are either trigger releases hammer / firing pin or trigger moves sear that releases hammer / firing pin. There are three things to modify in a trigger job: 1) pull [how much force on the trigger to get the gun to fire] 2) travel [ how far the trigger must be moved to get the gun to fire] 3) over travel [ how far the trigger can go after release]

Not all guns need all three things, but all three help for target shooting.

1) changing the pull It is nice when the manufacturer leaves an adjustment screw for this, but when they don&#039;t: a) I have a package of 1000 assorted springs that I select from to replace the trigger spring. Sometimes I cut a few coils off the stock trigger spring. I have used coil spring from ball point pens. b) The angle that the trigger and hammer engage [or sear and hammer engage] has an angle so that the main spring [that pushes the firing pin forward] is compressed slightly more by pulling the trigger. This is good in that if one cocks the gun and slams the gun butt on the floor, the gun will not go off. It is bad in that it makes the trigger hard to pull. I sometimes reduce this angle. This is a process often described as &#039;gunsmith only&#039;. A couple problems are: 1) the trigger / hammer- firing pin [or sear / hammer- firing pin] engaging surfaces may be highly polished case hardened surfaces that any change may render rough and soft resulting in lower service life. 2) if there is not enough angle to the engagement, the gun may go off if dropped. To minimize those two problems, I leave a little angle remaining, take off as little material as possible, I polish the surfaces with a stone, and I give the cocked firearm the butt slam test. c) Mausers have a double hump on the rear of the trigger that makes it a two stage. I grind the rear hump off. d) Some triggers are creepy and have a ragged pull. Polishing, shortening, and reducing the angle of the engagement surfaces helps this. d) Some people buy expensive after market hammers to fix this in the 10/22.

2) Travel Of course it is nice when the manufacturer makes a trigger mechanism with a screw adjustment feature for this, but if not, I remove some of the the trigger / hammer- firing pin or sear / hammer- firing pin engagement. If they engage 1/8&#039;, I reduce to 1/16&#039; etc. Sometimes I mill out some material from the trigger and Silver solder a bracket, drill and tap the bracket and put in a set screw with a keeper nut ala MacFarland&#039;s book on gunsmithing. In an AK clone, all I had to do was put a piece of Q tip shaft in the way of the trigger returning. The best I have done for 91/30&#039;s is shims that fall out when I remove the stock

3) Over travel Again, it is nice when the gun comes with a screw adjustment for THIS function too. Some people drill and tap a hole in the rear of the trigger guard and use a screw to block the trigger from traveling too far. Kel-Tec owners sometimes glue an pencil eraser behind the trigger. I most often put a piece or nail, carefully cut to length, inside the trigger return c 2) travel [ how far the trigger must be moved to get the gun to fire] 3) over travel 2) travel [ how far the trigger must be moved to get the gun to fire] 3) over travel [ how far the trigger can go after release]

Not all guns need all three things, but all three help for target shooting.

1) changing the pull It is nice when the manufacturer leaves an adjustment screw for this, but when they don&#039;t: a) I have a package of 1000 assorted springs that I select from to replace the trigger spring. Sometimes I cut a few coils off the stock trigger spring. I have used coil spring from ball point pens. b) The angle that the trigger and hammer engage [or sear and hammer engage] has an angle so that the main spring [that pushes the firing pin forward] is compressed slightly more by pulling the trigger. This is good in that if one cocks the gun and slams the gun butt on the floor, the gun will not go off. It is bad in that it makes the trigger hard to pull. I sometimes reduce this angle. This is a process often described as &#039;gunsmith only&#039;. A couple problems are: 1) the trigger / hammer- firing pin [or sear / hammer- firing pin] engaging surfaces may be highly polished case hardened surfaces that any change may render rough and soft resulting in lower service life. 2) if there is not enough angle to the engagement, the gun may go off if dropped. To minimize those two problems, I leave a little angle remaining, take off as little material as possible, I polish the surfaces with a stone, and I give the cocked firearm the butt slam test. c) Mausers have a double hump on the rear of the trigger that makes it a two stage. I grind the rear hump off. d) Some triggers are creepy and have a ragged pull. Polishing, shortening, and reducing the angle of the engagement surfaces helps this. d) Some people buy expensive after market hammers to fix this in the 10/22.

2) Travel Of course it is nice when the manufacturer makes a trigger mechanism with a screw adjustment feature for this, but if not, I remove some of the the trigger / hammer- firing pin or sear / hammer- firing pin engagement. If they engage 1/8&#039;, I reduce to 1/16&#039; etc. Sometimes I mill out some material from the trigger and Silver solder a bracket, drill and tap the bracket and put in a set screw with a keeper nut ala MacFarland&#039;s book on gunsmithing. In an AK clone, all I had to do was put a piece of Q tip shaft in the way of the trigger returning. The best I have done for 91/30&#039;s is shims that fall out when I remove the stock

3) Over travel Again, it is nice when the gun comes with a screw adjustment for THIS function too. Some people drill and tap a hole in the rear of the trigger guard and use a screw to block the trigger from traveling too far. Kel-Tec owners sometimes glue an pencil eraser behind the trigger. I most often put a piece or nail, carefully cut to length, inside the trigger return c 2) travel [ how far the trigger must be moved to get the gun to fire] 3) over travel [ how far the trigger can go after release]

Not all guns need all three things, but all three help for target shooting.

1) changing the pull It is nice when the manufacturer leaves an adjustment screw for this, but when they don't: a) I have a package of 1000 assorted springs that I select from to replace the trigger spring. Sometimes I cut a few coils off the stock trigger spring. I have used coil spring from ball point pens. b) The angle that the trigger and hammer engage [or sear and hammer engage] has an angle so that the main spring [that pushes the firing pin forward] is compressed slightly more by pulling the trigger. This is good in that if one cocks the gun and slams the gun butt on the floor, the gun will not go off. It is bad in that it makes the trigger hard to pull. I sometimes reduce this angle. This is a process often described as 'gunsmith only'. A couple problems are: 1) the trigger / hammer- firing pin [or sear / hammer- firing pin] engaging surfaces may be highly polished case hardened surfaces that any change may render rough and soft resulting in lower service life. 2) if there is not enough angle to the engagement, the gun may go off if dropped. To minimize those two problems, I leave a little angle remaining, take off as little material as possible, I polish the surfaces with a stone, and I give the cocked firearm the butt slam test. c) Mausers have a double hump on the rear of the trigger that makes it a two stage. I grind the rear hump off. d) Some triggers are creepy and have a ragged pull. Polishing, shortening, and reducing the angle of the engagement surfaces helps this. d) Some people buy expensive after market hammers to fix this in the 10/22.

2) Travel Of course it is nice when the manufacturer makes a trigger mechanism with a screw adjustment feature for this, but if not, I remove some of the the trigger / hammer- firing pin or sear / hammer- firing pin engagement. If they engage 1/8', I reduce to 1/16' etc. Sometimes I mill out some material from the trigger and Silver solder a bracket, drill and tap the bracket and put in a set screw with a keeper nut ala MacFarland's book on gunsmithing. In an AK clone, all I had to do was put a piece of Q tip shaft in the way of the trigger returning. The best I have done for 91/30's is shims that fall out when I remove the stock

3) Over travel Again, it is nice when the gun comes with a screw adjustment for THIS function too. Some people drill and tap a hole in the rear of the trigger guard and use a screw to block the trigger from traveling too far. Kel-Tec owners sometimes glue an pencil eraser behind the trigger. I most often put a piece or nail, carefully cut to length, inside the trigger return coil spring.

many people want a trigger job, for some shooters it wont do much,many shooters will 'pull' the trigger very slowly without increasing the pressue on the trigger,sure their 'pulling' it but with a steady (same) amount. Most think a 'light' or 'hair trigger' is the way, good sight picture and then a smooth, creepless break is more important than 'light', does anyone remember the 'heavy' trigger when your hunting? or the gritty,creepy trigger when you bagged that buck.bet not Fred