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Photo Courtesy of fellow Glockophile DJ Niner - wherever you are.

The picture is hopefully self explanatory.

Gen 1 & 2’s do NOT have light / accessory rails. Gen 3’s - 4’s have light / accessory rails.

All 1st generation Glocks are G17’s.

If you say, “Hey wait a minute, I own a 1st Generation G19″ - I say prove it by posting clear pictures of the gun with serial number.

(There was a VERY SMALL run of 1st Gen G19’s made for a Government agency trial - these are considered the “Holy Grail” of Glock collecting - along with near mythical fully transferable G18’s :) )

There is also a style which is commonly referred to a 2.5 Gen Glock (not pictured). These were made about the time of transition from 2nd to 3rd generation. They can be clearly identified by the lack of a light / accessory rail, yet the frame grip has finger grooves. The 2.5 gen Glocks are not common..

If you ended up here and have a question about values, dates of manufacture, or other technical issues please post them in the Glock section of the forums, or other appropriate sections.

General production dates (These are guidelines only):

Introduction through 1988 - Generation 1

Late 1988 through 1997 - Generation 2

Late 1997 through Present - Generation 3

2010 through Present - Generation 4

Random Notes:

There are NO accessory / light rails on Sub Compact Glocks.

1st Generation Glocks have become collectible in their own rights. And of those, the very early “Pencil Barrel” variants are the most sought after.

Glock did some experimenting with various Grip mold “textures”. In addition to the RTF, there are RTF2 and RTF3, plus probably others I am not familiar with. All these would be on at least 3rd Generation Glocks.

Glock also experimented with different serrations or styles of serrations on the slide, where one normally grips the slide to chamber a cartridge. These different serration styles are commonly referred to as “Gills” - you get one guess why (Answer - they look like fish gills). These non standard slide serrations are on some 3rd gen or later Glocks.

4th Generation Glocks have changeable back straps to allow a greater choice of grip thickness for those with smaller or larger hands.

Some generations were or are being produced at the same time. For example, when Glock introduced the 4th generation, they did not stop producing the 3rd generation. And as of December 2015 both 3rd and 4th Generation Glocks are being produced.

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Glock G17_398_Blue Label price.jpg

Picture courtesy of me.

So how do you get a basic brand new Glock pistol for $398.20 (February 2015).

Under Glocks Homeland Defender Program (Glock Blue Label Program) it is relatively easy.

Let’s first discuss what the Homeland Defender Program is. It is Glock’s way of saying thank you to those who protect and serve communities across the U.S.A. And has been around since about 2009. This program allows qualified individuals to purchase a basic sub compact, compact, or full size Glock pistol at discounted prices. As I write this (February 2015) the price is $398.20 plus tax. (Some places charge $399 even) Which is the same as the discount given an individual law enforcement officer if they were to make a purchase. This is an incredible price and is less than commercial wholesale. While this price is only for the majority of basic Glocks, the G20, 21, 34, 35, etc. are also greatly discounted and can be purchased under this program.

Covered in this program are personnel from all branches of the US military, retired members of the military, FFDO’s (Federal Flight Deck Officers – you know those airplane pilots or co-pilots who can carry handguns on board aircraft), EMT’s, Firemen – First Responders, Security Personnel, and of course all forms of sworn law enforcement, both at the federal and local level.

Directly from Glocks web site. Those who qualify include:

•Sworn Law Enforcement officers, including Federal, State, County, & City (Includes retired L.E. officers with “retired” credentials)

•EMT’s, Fire Fighters, Volunteer Fire Fighters, and Paramedics

•Military personnel including Reservists and National Guard with I.D. (Includes retired Military with “retired” credentials)

•Corrections Officers, including Parole and Probation Officers

•State Licensed Security Companies (Loomis, RAM, etc.) also includes State Licensed Armed Security Officers

•Court Judges, District Attorneys and Deputy District Attorneys

•LE Academy Cadets with enrollment documentation from the Academy

Glock tried to make this program as inclusive as they could. There is a requirement to produce valid identification showing you are in one of these groups at time of purchase. The Glocks that fall under this program are called “Blue Label” guns because the factory box has an appropriately enough blue colored label on it. And are the same Glocks that LE gets. However no night sights are included at that price. The dealer where you get your Glock from should be able to install a set for the low additional price of about $57 (also below commercial wholesale). If purchasing a compact or full size Glock, THREE magazines are included. If purchasing a sub-compact model, TWO magazines are included.

(General commercial “White Label” Glocks only come with two magazines).

One should not get this discount program confused with Glock’s “Homeland Defender” pistol. The Homeland Defender pistol is a 3rd generation Glock with a Homeland Defender logo laser etched or engraved on the side of the slide. So there is a Homeland Defender DISCOUNT program, and a Homeland Defender Glock HANDGUN, two totally different things.

Many Glock dealers are not even aware of this program. And I have had several tell me that there is no way to get a new Glock for that price. The catch, if there is a catch, is that ONLY Glock LAW ENFORCEMENT dealers can sell Blue Label Glocks at these prices. “Regular” Glock dealers cannot. So you need to find a Glock LAW ENFORCEMENT DEALER in your locale to get one of these guns. Keep in mind there is a difference between being a Glock Dealer, and a Glock Law Enforcement Dealer.

Now I would like to issue a huge warning. There are always a few people who try to scam the system. If someone were to think about purchasing a gun under this program by using a fake ID, well my recommendation is to forget that idea as fast as it came into your head. Using a false or fake ID to get a discount when not authorized can be punishable under law. And if you are dumb enough to try and use a fake law enforcement ID that makes the matter even worse. The potential liability is not worth the $100 or so savings.

Some of you reading this who may not be discount eligible are going, “Gee, I wish I could get a new Glock that cheap”. Well, all is not lost. If you join GSSF (Glock Sports Shooting Foundation) at an annual cost of about $35 you will receive one certificate to purchase a Glock at this reduced price.

So doing the math, $398.20 + $35 = $433.20 still under or very near wholesale.

http://us.glock.com/bluelabel

http://www.gssfonline.com/

http://us.glock.com/

Happy Glockin’

Rob

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There is no single way to answer that question.

One might as well ask, “I want to get a truck for my wife, which one should I get”?

See the problem with that.....

Some things to consider when making this decision:

  • What is the shooting experience level of your wife or significant other ?
  • How comfortable are they shooting semi automatic handguns?
  • What caliber of handgun have they shot?
  • Is there any cartridge / caliber of handgun they fired which they thought was “too much”?
  • Is there a gun range near you where you can rent various Glocks?
  • Are they willing to take a basic handgun safety course if not already completed?
  • What is the purpose of getting the Glock - self defense / CCW, target practice, home defense, etc.?
  • What is the shooters hand size?

The very best thing to do when contemplating this or any other handgun purchase is to go out and shoot as many different guns as possible, Glocks in this case. Luckily most gun ranges that rent guns will have several Glocks to try out.

With all that said - get a G19! Its the one Glock that universally most shooters will be able to shoot well and make do with no matter what the exact intended purpose.

Rob

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AR15s_SBR_and std CAR.jpg

Top Gun Pictured:

Bushmaster XM-15E2S (AR15 CAR version), 5.56mm/.223 Rem, SN: L49####, flat top upper receiver, Aimpoint Comp ML2 optic, MILSPEC collapsible 6 position stock, quad rail hand guard, Yankee Hill Machine folding BUIS rear sight, Surefire 951 light, MAGPUL vertical fore grip, single point sling adapter, MILSPEC 30-rd magazines.

Bottom rifle (SBR) Short Barrel Rifle. Legal in certain states of the USA as long as the builder or owner has the appropriate BATFE Form 1 or 4, which pays the $200 tax stamp to own one of these items.

Aero Precision AP15, (Short Barrel AR15 CAR Rifle), 5.56mm/.223 Rem, SN: US5####, flat top upper receiver, Aimpoint Comp ML2 optic, Yankee Hill Machine folding BUIS rear sight, MILSPEC collapsible 6 position stock. DPMS lower receiver trigger pack, Barrel shortened to 10.5” as part of BATFE SBRing process. I’ve got to work on getting a light mounted on this gun.

Both rifles have “M4″ feeding cuts and chrome lined barrels.

I like both guns equally well but am very partial to the SBR. Maybe because it took me so long to put together and get it running smoothly. Both guns will cycle any factory ammo with ease. But no matter what, Russian steel case ammo is dirty to shoot. The only solution is to clean the guns more. Or only shoot the much more expensive brass case ammo.

Regards,


Rob

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Remington 700 VTR_223_with Leupold scope.jpg

Remington 700 VTR with Hogue stock and 4-12x Leupold scope in steel two piece scope bases and rings. (This is a basic off the shelf “precision” rifle set up)

Rem 700 custom Long Range_308.jpg

Remington 700 custom build - 26″ barrel, Timney 510 trigger, Williams steel bottom metal, EGW 20MOA scope base, Burris Xtreme Tactical scope rings, Leupold VARI-X III, 6.5-20×50AO scope. This is an example of a custom build, but goes short of replacing the barrel and having the action blue printed. There is about $2000 invested here.

Over the past thirty years or so I have pretty much owned every big name factory “Precision” rifle at one time or another. And what have I learned ? That most companies make a really good product. Savage makes an outstanding long range rifle - they actually make a few. Ruger likes to think they make a decent long range gun, but for whatever reason they never worked for me. And one look at various long range competitions will show a distinct lack of representation by Ruger. (And I really like Ruger products in general, I own a few.....)

So to answer my own subject line question. There is not any single ONE best long range .308 rifle, there are many in today’s market. Something for almost anyone’s budget.

I contend that a rifle as good as a full blown custom gun, is an off the shelf Remington model 700P. Mount an upper grade Leupold or Night Force scope on it and you will be set to compete with anyone, anywhere. However do not skimp on a quality scope base or bases and rings.

And it should go without saying, but I will say it anyway that quality “Match” type ammunition needs to be used to wring every last bit of accuracy out of any precision rifle. If in doubt use Federal Gold Medal Match. This has been the standard match ammunition that others are judged by. Most long range shooters re-load or hand load their ammunition and tailor it to the specific gun they are shooting it through. Bullet design or bullet weight of what shoots best may vary in different guns. So, a known quality off the shelf factory load may shoot adequately in one gun, however it may shoot outstanding in another. The best way to find out what shoots the most accurately in your exact gun is to test as many different loads as possible. Three shot groups at 100 yards are fine as a baseline indication of accuracy. However I like to shoot five shot groups to tell me where my rifle is at.

If you require something better than the 700P rifle, you would most likely have to go custom or semi-custom.

Want to get into budget long range shooting? Then look at the heavy barrel Remington 700 SPS’ with a Hogue Overmolded stock along with a mid price range Nikon or Burris scope. The same scope would also work very well on Savage’s model 10FP’s or similar Savage product.

Another decent option that looks a little different is Remington’s 700 VTR (Varmint Tactical Rifle). I still can’t figure the market Remington was going after with this model. I guess they thought both Varmint and Tactical shooters would equally purchase it.

Personally, I think 3-9x power scopes are not enough magnification when trying to work in the 600-1,000 yard range. I like variable power scopes that go at least to 14x, and 18x would not be unreasonable. But that’s in part because my eyes are getting old and not what they used to be.

What will, or should drive your your rifle and scope selection is, #1 your budget, and #2 what you are trying to accomplish.

For example, if you plan on doing ultimate long range Varminting, you will need the best scope available with the most magnification to even see those tiny targets. And then you get into accessories such as Laser Range Finders, but that might be best addressed in another blog......

Regards,

Rob

Pictures courtesy of me.

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