Kel-Tek P-11 not approved in CA.us

I talked to the owner of a local store today and he said that he cannot sell me a new P-11, because it is not on an approved list. However, if a private individual had one for sale in the state, he could transfer it. Go figure.

Is there any truth to it, and is there a way to obtain P-11 in California?

Thanks in advance for any information,

#I talked to the owner of a local store today and he said that he #cannot sell me a new P-11, because it is not on an approved list. #However, if a private individual had one for sale in the state, #he could transfer it. Go figure.

It's the law. Can only import certified handguns into the state; can purchase uncertified ('unsafe' handguns from private parties, but NOT from dealers (if a dealer has an uncertified handgun, he has to sell it out of state).

According to http://justice.doj.ca.gov/safeguns/safeguns_new.taf no Kel-tec handguns are certified. This could be because they can't pass the certification or, more likely, Kel-Tec simply doesn't want to bother with the procedure.

If this law is news to you, you should join the NRA or the CRPA. The only reason we have such a law is because only one in ten California gun owners are NRA or CRPA members.

# # I talked to the owner of a local store today and he said that he # cannot sell me a new P-11, because it is not on an approved list. # However, if a private individual had one for sale in the state, # he could transfer it. Go figure. # # Is there any truth to it, and is there a way to obtain P-11 # in California? #

That's correct. No Kel-Tec firearms are sold at retail in California *and* Private Party transfers are exempt from the 'safe handgun' law. Keeping in mind that I am not a lawyer, my understanding is that theoretically there are a couple of ways around the law.

1. A resident of the state can sell you a used gun not on the 'safe' list, provided:

a. It was previously brought into the state legally. For example, the owner moved here recently and brought the handgun in, and complied with the reporting rules at that time.

b. Or it was sold at retail in the state prior to the to the deadlines of the 'safe' handgun law.

b. You *both* have to be present at a California FFL or Sheriff's office to sign the transfer paperwork

2. Or the seller puts the *used* handgun on 'consignment' with a pre-arranged California FFL.

a. In other state statutes, such as the 'one handgun a month' law, consignment gun sales are treated as private party transfers.

b. This may take some persuading of the FFL, or you may need to find an FFL that believes the gray areas go in your favor, and is not afraid to stand up to the bozos in Sacramento. (good test case?)

c. You would have to coordinate with the FFL, because they need to put the gun on hold, I believe about 2 weeks, before it actually can be put on sale. Then you would have to come in and buy it.

d. Hypothetically I believe the seller could be out of state

If the seller is out of state, I *believe* they could transport the used handgun into the state by driving in or perhaps flying in, meet you at the FFL and do the paperwork. So do you want the gun bad enough to pay for his plane ticket?

This must be a true private party transfer, meaning the seller sells guns 'infrequently' and not as any sort of ongoing business.

All that being said, this is not legal advice, only my lay observations. You takes your own chances!

# # #I talked to the owner of a local store today and he said that he # #cannot sell me a new P-11, because it is not on an approved list. # #However, if a private individual had one for sale in the state, # #he could transfer it. Go figure. # # If this law is news to you, you should join the NRA or the CRPA. The only # reason we have such a law is because only one in ten California gun owners # are NRA or CRPA members. # # # Mitch # If you like guns you need to be politically active, especially in anti-gun States like California or NJ. Now I live in Mississippi and there are plenty of BS laws flying but almost nothing to do with firearms We have one representative in the whole State that gets a 'D' or :F' from the NRA on his firearm's voting record. He has never had anything passed that I am aware of. Now in California there is Feinstein and others and CA has so many people it can make laws that eventually infect other States. Make no mistake there are people who want to get your guns but you can keep that bottle of wine or bag of cannabis that is made in California. We still have prohibition of alcohol in the County that I live in but you can own a machine gun or sound moderator! And yes, the anti-liquor laws in MS work just as well as the gun laws work.

: However, if a private individual had one for sale in the state, : he could transfer it. Go figure. : : Is there any truth to it, and is there a way to obtain P-11 : in California? : : Thanks in advance for any information,

We can't have cannabis. John 'States Rights' Ashcroft is seeing to that.

# # What a crock. I will never move or even go to california. Why dont those # guys take control of their state back. #

Well, if you have any workable suggestions, we're all ears out here on the Left Coast. (And, probably take it to email, as that would stretch the charter for the group.)

I'm sure tired of hearing this question from non-Californians. We KNOW we're living under bad laws and lawmakers. Figure out how we can make our legislature pass laws based on facts rather than emotional outbursts.

Frankly, we're outnumbered by the un-thoughtful. Unthinking people keep returning legislators to office; nearly all legislators are devoted to exactly one thing: getting re-elected. That being so, they provide what the people think they WANT rather than what makes sense.

And the Democrats just re-aligned the legislative districts to pretty much assure nearly all seats are 'safe' (the Republicans would have acted similarly - it's a politicritter problem, not a party problem).

Unfortunately, the sad and sorry truth is that most gun owners in CA don't get off their butts and call or write to their representatives. Here are some numbers for you - CA has about 35 million people in it and around 8 to 10 million of those are gun owners. Each member of the Assembly represents about 425,000 people. Now I doubt that there is a district with less than 15,000 gun owners in it, but if just 15k gun owners in each district made just one 3 minute call to the member of the assembly , that politician would need almost 19 full time staff memebers to take our calls (750 man hours/week). Now, most of us can find 5 minutes during the day to make a call like that. But, most of us don't bother. That is why we have the laws that we do.

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# Well, if you have any workable suggestions, we're all ears out here on # the Left Coast. (And, probably take it to email, as that would stretch # the charter for the group.)

You may very well have a new governor election coming soon. Now would be a good time to start looking at candidates that might be helpful. I feel your pain, moved from from California in 1999. Loved the weather, beauty, and convenience of everything but hated the crime, cost and politics.