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pcaru1
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Hello,
I am interested in Garand that I saw for sale. Some marks that are on this gun on the left side of the stock is a square with an eagle in it and three stars over the eagle.
At the bottom of the stock where your hand goes around it there is a circle with a P in it.
On the left side at the rear it looks like some one has painted H Q an under that is a 7 they are worn and hard to see.
The barrel has a circle with a W in it and down from that is the # 10. They are at the back end of the barrel on the right side under the a piece that moves over it when we pull the handle back.
The bolt has D28287-12SA and under that is S-B11 and a diamond.
Receiver Cal. 30 M1, Winchester, 241704X. Any help I get would help me greatly. Thanks.
pcaru
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bigcurt
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hello,,the m1 garand is a fine rifle and they have rizen in value over the past 10 years ,,the rifle your looking at from the receiver markings is a winchester made example ,,it should have all winchester marked parts ,,from what you saw the bolt has been replaced ,,it should have a d-28287-WRA bolt ,,the stock sounds like a replacement also,,the square with stars is the defence dept eagle which is correct for korean war issue rifles and was proably replaced after ww2,,the barrel sounds correct and the barrel alone is worth around 500 bucks ,,because many winchester barrels were replaced with whatever was on hand after ww2 so it's common to find winchester garands with springfield made barrels or also garands were sent to the danes and then returned here and many have danish replacementVMR barrels ,,so the winchester barrel is a plus ,,the trigger group should be winchester marked on the side WRA,as should the parts inside the trigger group ,,these are most of the time replacements also and it may be springfield ,, or a mix of any maker who made garand parts ,,winchester also used punch marks to designate there parts from other makers so some parts may have small round punch marks instead of WRA marked parts ,,every part on a garand should be marked somehow and thsi is where grands become hard to id without a book listing what should be there and how it was marked ..there are many good books available that can help iding the correct parts and if you get it let me know and i'll give you some good book sources ..
,,winchester did not make rifles during the korean war years and if it saw service during the korean conflict it was rebuilt at some time and this could be when the replacement parts were added ,,the CMP sold and still may have some garands but the winchesters are few and far between,,and command higher prices than the springfeilds these days ,,value for a correct winchester is proably around 1500-2000,,for a mixmaster like it sounds like your looking at id say don't pay more than 700-800 and better if less ,,
,,to make this rifle correct from what you have told me it needs a bolt and buttstock at minimul,,these parts would be 100 for a bolt ,,the stock is a high dollar item and a good one would proably run you between 350-800 for a correct proofed one ,,,,if it needs a trigger group that could run you 150-200 for WRA marked examples ,,then theres the op rod ,,which is the peice you pull back when loading ,,it should also be WRA marked behind the handle ,,you won't know about this unless you take the rifle apart ,,if it needs a op rod WRA rods don't come cheap and they can run as much as 200-250,,so If your looking for a shooter grade garand then it might be a good investment at the prices i quoted you ,,if your looking for an investement to make money on then you better check the internal parts to make sure it's not gonna cost your a pile of money to make it correct,,
,,then after all that you need to know how the barrel is ,,to check this you need special guages ,,the chamber aera is the first item to check and that involver useing a TE (throat errosion guage) naything under a 5 on the guage means there alot of life left in the chamber over 5 starts to be questionable and areound 8-9 is poor ,,then you have to check the ME or (muzzel erosion),,this can be done with a ME guage or a simple test is to take a 30-06 military loaded bullet and put in in the end of the barrel bullet end first and look at the amount of the bullet that shows between the barrel end and the end of the brass case 1/8" is good and passes the bullet test ,,if the bore swallows the entire bullet clear up to the end of the brass the muzzel is worn and proably won't shoot very accuratly,,but will shoot good but won't be a tackdriver ,,this wears out from improper cleaning in the feild ,,so thats about all i have for ya on how to pick a garand ,,that should keep ya busy for awhile checking out all the details ,,and from what you have told me about the rifle i'd say anything under 650-700 is a steal for it ,,but over 700 then check it out in detail good before you get something that will cost alot to restore because winchester garand parts don't come cheap !
bigcurt
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pcaru1
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Bigcurt,
thanks for the info but the guy wanted twice what you said it should be or near. I have found another and will try to post pics cause the gentleman let me take it apart.
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bigcurt
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hello again ..i glanced at your pics but i have to go to my grangsons football practice ,,let me look them over later and i'll tell ya what i think of it ,,from the quick look at the pics i'd say this rifle saw some service in the vietnam years and may even be a dane return sold thru the CMP,,i'll look them over again when i get home but from what i saw i wouldn't go over 650 for this one ,,it's a mixmaster of differemt manufactures parts,,but let me look at it some more if ya can..
bigcurt
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bigcurt
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HELLO,,again,,well i looked the garand over again,,i wish i had my data sheets guide so i could look up the serial number to check what parts should be on that receiver,,i know the barrel isn't right for the receiver ,,i know it's a ww2 receiver with a 67 dated barrel so thats been changed for sure ,,the boltmay be the correct bolt,,but i can't say for sure without my dam data sheets book,,the trigger group was a 12 SA,,another item that would have to check the data sheets on ,,the op rod is sa but i beleive i can say for sure it's been replaced ,,the stock may be correct but i see they glass bedded the action,,hows the lock up on the trigger group?sometimes the glass is added for proper lockup on a loose trigger group,,the hammer looks like a replacement but again ya need the data sheets to confirm that ,,the etched number on the floorplate isn't something that was arsenal done but could have been done when it was rebuilt to keep it with the receiver ,,the gas cylinder i can't really tell from the pic what kind it is ,,the gas plug i beleive will proably be a PO marked one with a cross shape slot in the end which was ok for a rebuild ,,the originals only had a slot like a flat tipped screwdriver would fit in ,,the sites i really cant tell much from the pic and the rest of the internal i'd need my data sheets for to figure out if it has the right parts
,,so the question is.. what do they want for it ?i still will go with my original first opinion that i wouldn't pay more than 600-650 for it tops ,,if you really want a grand like this i'd check out the CMP online and see what they have left ,,the requirements for purchasing one from them is pretty easy and there proably the cheapest way to go for a decent garand and they will ship it straight to your door once you meet the requirement and fill out the paperwork and send them your payment and paperwork,,no dealers to mark the price up or hassels with dealers paperwork.. ,,search "CMP" and look at there site ,,theres a store on the other side of cleveland and i beleive there tha store in GA.if your close enough you can go to there store and pick a garand out ya like ..they were selling them for around 400 bucks for rack grade shooters and sometimes ya find a really nice one,,
,,if your not close enough and you like this one the next thing i'd check is the barrel condition see if whoever has it has a TE guage or if they have ever had it checked before ,,the cmp guages there barrels and if it came from there see if they will tell you what grade it was and the Throat erosion (TE) ,,next see if you can find a military 30-06 round with a full metal jacketed bullet and do the drop in the end of the barrel test to see how good the muzzel is ,,remember it should have bullet showing when inserted into the bore ,,if it goes in up to the brass the muzzel is worn ,,if the barrel checks out ok then it's your money to spend or to keep looking around for something nicer
,,about a2 weeks ago i saw a nice springfield that was correct with a correct barrel and all sa parts a guy was selling for 700 and it was nice ,,this one to me is a dane return that someone bought from the CMP for proably under 400 bucks and is trying to make some money on,,very common these days,,and i see these at gunshows for around 600-850 and for the upper end prices there alot nicer than this one ..but like i said it's your money and if you like it ..pick up some clips and head for the range
..if there are any gunshows comming up near you i'd say to shop around ,,and mabey even look either there or online for a book called m1 garand data sheets,,i beleive craig reish wrote this ,,about 10-15 bucks ,,this book lists garands in serial numbers and has what parts should be with the rifles in a serial number range and gives the exact part numbers to look for ,,another book to think about is "the m1 garand" book by joe poyer ,,it breaks down every part with pics and diagrams to show you how to tell if your rifle should have what parts and how to id the different types of parts used threw out the wars..alot of thing to know if your gonna be a garand collector and it costs about 20 bucks,,very easy to read with lots of pics on all makes and models of the garands,,with these books you have bargining chips to work with dealers who think there rifles a correct ,,
,,one more thing you said that the other one you looked at the guy wanted about double the prices i quoted ,,lol,,lol,,and i bet he still has it too!!!don't let shady dealers make you beleive that grands are drying up and there worth a fortune ..there out there and still can be had for the prices i quoted and below ,,but some guys think because they buy a book that the price in it is wrote in stone ,,price guides are just that ,,a refrence guide to POSSIBLE VALUES FOR CERTAIN GUNS,,, NOT A BIBLE OF WHAT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR ANY ONE GUN!!! well there ya go a lesson in m1 garands and how to buy them
,,and by the way i have owned m1 garands ..5 of them ,,2 winchesters 1 h+r and a springfield tanker 308 conversion and 1 springfield standard rifle ..so i know what i'm talking about when it comes to whats right and whats wrong,,lol,,lol,, 
bigcurt |
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Last Edit: 2009/10/06 23:57 By bigcurt.
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bigcurt
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moved to the military forum list,,please check there for replies
bigcurt
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pcaru1
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bigcurt,
Haven't had time to get back here. Thanks for the info, you
've opened my eyes on a lot of things. TE from a guage is 2.5 and ME is between 0 and 1 on a guage. Trigger is bedded but it locks up tight. Is the bedding an issue? It touches the receiver everywhere except a small gap (1mm) under the serial numbers on the very back of the receiver. You were right on with the gas tube plug and from some "research" it has no cut in it. Maybe a wide base tube??? He had a guage that he stuck in the gas tube and it stuck up out of the hole a little. He said this was good?? I will take some pics of the sight for eval. I have seen pics of other rifles with lots of markings on trigger groups, followers... but this one seems to have not many or none??? The guy is asking $750 and has two bowes of M72 Match ammo to go with it. Looks like old stuff. 1966 Lake City . White Box with an Eagle on it. Thanks for all your help.
pcaru
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