I have a Winchester Model 92 chambered in 45ACP. The serial number dates the rifle to 1907. The rifle is in good to very good condition, although someone refinished the stocks before I aquired the rifle. I have not been able to find another 92 with this chambering and have not found it listed as an offering from Winchester yet I have one. I believe it to be a Trapper since it has a 16 barrel. There is also a Santa Fe stamp on the receiver. Can anyone tell me what I have and its value. I'd like to insure it.
You do not need to be concerned about insuring the rifle. What you have is a 1907 rifle which has been altered to shoot a non original caliber. That is why you can't find anything about it. The wood was probably refinished at the same time. If you can post some photos it would help me determine just what you have.
"Trappers" are short barrel carbines. Does your rifle have a round or octagon shaped barrel? Is there a saddle ring on the left side of the receiver? What is the full serial number of the gun? The original production ledgers may exist so that you can find out the original configuration.
The rifle is a saddle ring model with a round barrel. The 45 ACP stamping is on the left side of the barrel just above the receiver. The complete stamping on the receiver reads as follows:
OLICIA Prov. SANTA FE (the OLICIA is best guess)
There is also an oval with what appears to be a P overlaying a W inside the oval at the top center of the receiver.
I'm hesitant to post the serial number on a public forum but the #436XXX might be enough to get closer to the original chambering. Thanks for your help
The barrel on your rifle is a replacement barrel and not original to the rifle.
The oval W/P stamp is the Winchester Proof stamp that is on the receiver. At the serial number range of your rifle it would have been stamped on the top of the barrel also.
The factory ledgers do not exist for your rifle's serial number range so the original caliber can not be determined. Even if they did, there is no way to know without the specific number from your rifle. Why are you worried of posting the serial number? What harm is that going to cause? As long as you are the lawful owner of the rifle nobody really cares what your rifle's SN is.
Any chance the stamp on the receiver is "POLICIA....."
Can you send me a photo of the receiver stamp, the stamp on the upper tang behind the hammer and the full serial number? Does the gun have a carbine butt plate or a rifle butt plate on it?
One other thing. A 430,000 range rifle should be stamped Model 1892 not 92.
Replace the # with @
As for the serial # I've always been told not to post any serial # on a public forum. I will take some pictures and post them this afternoon. I do believe the stamping is POLICIA but the Pis not visable.
Do not worry about posting serial numbers. I know some of the top collectors of Winchesters who have photos and serial numbers of there rifles on websites. There is no gun police who is going to knock the door down and take your rifle in the dark of night.
I will look forward to seeing the photos.
Your Model 1892 is one of at least a few dozen that I have run into over the years with identical markings. They were sold to Argentina, and rebarreled to the military/police cartridge in use by Argentina at that time. My best guess is that at least 500 of them were purchased and modified.
Over the years, a number of them have made their way back to the States. Most of them that I have seen were chambered for the 45 Long Colt cartridge, but some have argued that they were .45 ACP. I have not had the opportunity to prove or disprove that claim.
That said, and when you consider the fact that the Model 1892 was designed for a rimmed cartridge (which the 45 LC is), and the .45 ACP is not a rimmed cartridge, it lends a lot of validity to the 45 LC chambering versus the .45 ACP. I assume that you have verified that your gun loads, chambers, fires, and properly ejects the .45 ACP cartridge?
Leroy Merz (a well known Winchester collector/Dealer) currently has one for sale on his website, and he claims that it is a 45 LC - http://www.leroymerz.com/catalog_C0_13_1.php
Here is another one that was recently discussed on a different forum - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=508708
I just aquired the rifle and have not had he chance to fire it yet. What you said makes sense. The stamping is for 45ACP but I have not confirmed that yet. Thanks for the reply
If I may interrupt...I model 1892 Winchester like tgheone you all arfe discussing. It has the same markings as discussed. The word "OFORMO" should reead "REFORMO"; or, at least mine does. Where yours reads .45ACP on the barrel just off the receiver, mine reads only .45 as the "ACP" or whatever, is marred off. A .45 Colt round is too long for the chamber. A .45 ACP will fit the chamber, but must be levered in to fully seat, and will fully eject with no difficulty. I've had mine for about 10 years, and took it to a local range two days ago and fired 15 .45 ACP rounds through it. each round loaded through the breach by hand and lever seated. The rounds will not properly cycle through the loading process when loaded through the loading gate. After having fired the first 14 rounds the bolt started to stick somewhat and I stopped firing after the 15th round. The bore of my rifle is in very poor condition, so accuracy was nonexistant. Two people told me the detonation of the rounds "didn't sounded right", but I attrribute that to be the fact that the rounds were being fired through a 16 oinch barrel vice a 5 inch .45ACP pistol barrel. The weapon I have was exported with an original barrel 14" in length and had a 2 innch extension added so it could be reimported, or so I was told. According to the Winchester Rifle Serial Number search I completed, it was manufactured in 1925; most likely in .44-40, then rechambered and barrelled wherever it finally wound up. Winchester produced a number of Model 1892s for the South American Rubber Industry, and a lot of these may have wound up in use by prison systems in South American countries, hence the markings on the receiver: POLICIA Prov.SANTEFE Cal.45 REFORMO...other markings after "REFORMO" are either OTME or UTME CBA.(RA)BUT THE STAMP APPEARS TO HAVE NOT BEEN APPLIED WITH SUFFICIENT FORCE AS TO COMPLETE THE MARKING. The here is a number (061) stamped just above the word POLICIA taht could be a Sante Fe Provincial Police system serial number. I may be mistaken, but from the limited information I can find via Google, or anywhere else, POLICIA Prov.SANTEFE markings refer to a Sante Fe in Argentina.
Thanks for a good reading thread, and again, I apologize for interrupting your conversation. MAybe we can all learn smething about our little Winchesters, mine is beautiful, but has only scant lands and groves left in the bore, so I won't be firing it again.
Thank you for joining in and sharing the information about your rifle. I am conducting a research survey of the Model 1892's and would like to add yours to the work. Could you please post some good clear detail photos of all the markings on the rifle including the barrel address, caliber stamp, upper tang stamp and the full serial number. Does you rifle have sling attachments on the left side of the stock and the barrel retaining band as in the two photos below?
Your rifle will be the 5th one I have documented to date.
Thanks so much
I have one of these, I'd like to sell it and would appreciate any help in establishing value.
I have one of these, I'd like to sell it and would appreciate any help in establishing value.
As Bert asked please post some photos. I am also working on a research survey of the Model 1892 rifles and would be interested in the rifle.
Well, I just sent it with my father to be looked at by a friend of his. I know I have some photos of this gun. It will be back in a day or so if he doesn't buy it. I'll look to see if I can locate the photos.
Please get your father or his friend to send you some photos and the full serial number of the rifle. It would be extremely helpful for my work.
I appreciate the effort,
Mine has some "burned circles" on the right side of the stock, near the butplate. I have always figured these were this particular officers "score marks" will this seriously detract from the value of the rifle?
Who is kicking herself in the butt for sending the rifle away even for a shot time.
Michael, I will do. Wish I had looked online sooner.
Short not shot time
As long as you can contact your dad's friend if he in fact does end up buying the rifle maybe I can get what I need. If you can get the full serial number I can send photos of what the rifle markings "ought to be" and then we can go from there.
If the rifle comes back to you then we can take a much closer look at it and help you better. You could always tell your dad to have his friend look at it but you would like a bit more time before you sell it. It would be better to probably put it on Gunbroker.com and get it in front of more people.
As you may have gleaned from the post I am conducting a research survey of the Model 1892 rifles and would be very interested in getting more detail/photos of your rifle to add to the work. Could you please post detail photos of all the markings on your rifle and the serial number.
I will try and take some photos of this rifle tomorrow. I have a few on my phone but they really don't show the detail.
P.S. Would love to find a buyer that would appreciate the history of this rifle.
Hello to Cora and Geoff,
If you will both register on the site I can forward my email to ease the photo posting and so that I may receive the larger photo files for my research.
I have had contact with numerous guys with rifles in Australia. I appreciate the long distance effort.
Thanks to both of you
Good morning Michael in America,
thank you for your interest in my carbine, this is the second one I have owned, does'nt shoot accurately due to
shot out barrel, however an unusual firearm for a Winchester collector, some details for you,converted
from .44/40 to .45ACP, side sling swivels, mauser type
military rear sight graduated 200-1000mts. ???
post front sight with circular hood protector,saddle ring, S/N 952081, tang marked "MODEL 92 "WINCHESTER"
receiver marked "599, POLICIA PROV SANTA FE REFOOIMF
CBA (RA)" barrel marked " CAL.45 LC" which I am told
means "Latin Cartridge" from the person who bought
8-10 of them into Australia at least 35 years ago ???,
I have been collecting Winchesters since the early sixties & I have only known of 4 others thru. gun shows or auctions etc.,mine has been reblued which I presume would have been done with the conversion ???, hopes this helps you
regards, Geoff. Wilson
I would be very interested in receiving some photos documenting your rifle. Do you happen to know the serial number of the other rifle that was marked the same?
If you have any other Model 1892/92 rifles, or know of any one who does, I would be very interested in getting information on those rifles for my survey. I currently have 3430 rifles in the effort and would like to eventually get 10,000.
Thanks and looking forward to photos.
Good morning Michael,good info. re the .45ACP carbines on
your site, as requested Winchesters which I have,M/92's,
9 rifles,12 carbines,98% "Special Order & or Australian
marked", ie " Stinger/New Daisy Carbine or rifle,
retailers name etc., hope this aids your reseach,are you writing a book ???
Will endeavour to get some photos to you,
NB: S/N of other carbine was 95208.
I was travelling today to look at 25 Model 1892 rifles that are up for auction this weekend. Nothing that I wanted to buy but just rifles that I needed more information on for my research. Yes eventually I will publish a book of some sort to present the results of the research. I truly appreciate your willingness to send me information on your collection of rifles. What I will need for each rifle is a photo of:
1.) the entire rifle
2.) the barrel address
3.) the caliber stamp
4.) the upper tang stamp
5.) the Stinger or Daisy stamps
6.) the serial number
If you could send me an individual email for each rifle with the photos attached it will be the simplest way to keep it all organized. If you will register on this site I will send you my email address in a private message.
I am now registered and hope to upload photos this evening if I figure out how. Although I think it may be easy once I get them downloaded.