7.62x25 hollow point or...?

Does anyone make self defense ammo in 7.62x25 for the CZ-52? Something that would expand instead of overpenetrating in a self defense setting?

Yours In Liberty, Melissa - Colorado, U.S.A.

>that >would expand instead of overpenetrating in a self defense setting?

Mag-Safe is currently producing and marketing some 7.62 X 25mm self defense ammo having pre-fragmented bullets. Extremely expensive stuff.

Sam Heywood

I've seen both Federal HP and Timms saboted bullets loaded onto 7.62x25 cartridges available at local N. Ohio shows; likely intended for the CZ and Tokarev. IIRC they were $34 and $54 respectively for 50. I don't think they are just local 'home grown'; I think the guy said he was a distributor...

TK

> ... that > ...

# Does anyone make self defense ammo in 7.62x25 for the CZ-52? Something that # would expand instead of overpenetrating in a self defense setting?

MagSafe makes a prefragmented round in 7.62x25. I don't remember exactly what the velocity developed is, but it's really very fast stuff, something like 2100 fts, over 500 ft-lbs. I believe it's supposed to be safe in a CZ-52, but you'd better make very sure, the CZ-52 is a lot weaker than the Tokarev TT-33 pistol.

It's also very expensive, around $3 a round, at least that's I paid for 2 packages of 6 rounds. $40 for 12 rnds! eek!

I think this stuff has some severe drawbacks as a self defense round. I got some just to see, as a novelty. First, it's extremely expensive, so putting a couple of hundred rounds through your gun so as to be sure of reliable function and whether you can actually hit with it is going to cost you so much that you might be better off just buying a better gun for carry than that huge CZ-52.

Secondly, from what I can see this round is going to turn the bad guy into frothy hamburger and make you very unpopular with the emergency room docs if the perp is even (un)lucky enough to survive.

And last but by no means least, the packages I bought had labels on them saying 'blah, blah, prefragmented, blah, blah, extremely fast, blah, blah, for MAX LETHALITY! (sorry I can't remember offhand the exact wording, but to a jury it's going to sound exactly like the above)

In short, I think these rounds are what might be referred to as 'lawyer candy.' They'll undoubtedly do the defense job, but the legal aftermath might not be so good.

Pretty exciting stuff out on the range though, very fun. Real firebreathers.

<snip>

>If you can carry a 1911 then you can carry this. The biggest problem I >have >with them is that the decocker is not reliable. Not that you should ever >really trust one anyway, but this one has a reputation for firing when >decocking. I believe that is usually associated with modifying the >trigger >or firing pin, but I'm not sure if that's always the case.

The last time I checked the write-ups at 'makarov.com' about this problem, there was only one reported case that they are aware of where this has happened. The incident reported involved a CZ-52 which had been modified by installing the Harrington Competition Firing Pin. Installation of this somewhat popular after-market accessory requires the removal of the firing pin safety. I do not believe there is any way the de-cocking lever could theoretically cause the gun to fire if the gun still has the firing pin safety installed and working properly. The advantage of the Harrington Competition Firing Pin is that it lightens the relatively hard military trigger pull considerably. The disadvantage is that the installation requires the removal of the firing pin safety. The manufacturer of this after-market accessory supplies it to the customer with a very appropriate safety warning to alert the user of the possible dangers of not having a firing pin safety. Unfortunately the Harrington Competition Firing Pin cannot be used if the firing pin safety is to remain installed. I installed the Harrington Competition Firing Pin on my CZ-52. So far I have experienced no problems with unintentional discharges as a result of using the decocking lever or as a result of any other cause. If ever I had to de-cock the pistol in a situation where an unintentional discharge would be embarrassing or dangerous, I would safely de-cock it manually without using the de-cocking lever. Because of the very few and very bizarre reports I sometimes hear about the bad behavior of decocking levers, I don't put my trust in decocking levers on *any* gun. I do use de-cocking levers, but never in a situation where an unintentional discharge would be embarassing or dangerous. Manual de-cocking is an exceedingly safer procedure. I will back up this statement by citing Murphy and all others who have discovered the truth of his most enlightened law of engineering considerations.

>Doesn't >bother me >since I only shoot mine on the range, but if I carried it then it would >worry me a little.

I sometimes carry my CZ-52 and it doesn't worry me at all because I practice my skills in manual de-cocking procedures. The M1911 doesn't even have a de-cocking lever. Since the M1911 doesn't need a cocking lever to be carried and used safely, de-cocking levers are just unneeded and superfluous extra safety features which sometimes don't work very safely.

Sam Heywood

# Manual de-cocking is an exceedingly safer procedure. # I will back up this statement by citing Murphy and all others who # have discovered the truth of his most enlightened law of engineering # considerations. # # Sam Heywood

And I will dispute the statement by citing Murphy and citing the incident of the Lexington KY cop losing his job and peace of mind after killing a 16 year old he was serving a warrant on when his thumb slipped while manually lowering the trigger instead of using the decocking lever.

Doug T

# I sometimes carry my CZ-52 and it doesn't worry me at all because I # practice my skills in manual de-cocking procedures. The M1911 # doesn't even have a de-cocking lever. Since the M1911 doesn't need # a cocking lever to be carried and used safely, de-cocking levers are # just unneeded and superfluous extra safety features which sometimes # don't work very safely.

I've always considered arguments based on 'that's how the 1911 worked' as rather silly. Just because something worked for the 1911 doesn't mean it works for everything. The CZ-52 has a much smaller surface area on the hammer to grip when decocking, and that surface is curved. It's a lot easier for your thumb to slip on that than on the long, flat (relatively speaking) surface of the 1911.

#

#

# # <snip> # # >If you can carry a 1911 then you can carry this. The biggest problem I # >have # >with them is that the decocker is not reliable. Not that you should ever # >really trust one anyway, but this one has a reputation for firing when # >decocking. I believe that is usually associated with modifying the # >trigger # >or firing pin, but I'm not sure if that's always the case. # # The last time I checked the write-ups at 'makarov.com' about this # problem, there was only one reported case that they are aware of # where this has happened. The incident reported involved a CZ-52 # which had been modified by installing the Harrington Competition # Firing Pin. Installation of this somewhat popular after-market # accessory requires the removal of the firing pin safety. I do not # believe there is any way the de-cocking lever could theoretically # cause the gun to fire if the gun still has the firing pin safety # installed and working properly. The advantage of the Harrington # Competition Firing Pin is that it lightens the relatively hard # military trigger pull considerably. The disadvantage is that the # installation requires the removal of the firing pin safety. The # manufacturer of this after-market accessory supplies it to the # customer with a very appropriate safety warning to alert the user # of the possible dangers of not having a firing pin safety. # Unfortunately the Harrington Competition Firing Pin cannot be used # if the firing pin safety is to remain installed. I installed the # Harrington Competition Firing Pin on my CZ-52. So far I have # experienced no problems with unintentional discharges as a result # of using the decocking lever or as a result of any other cause. If # ever I had to de-cock the pistol in a situation where an # unintentional discharge would be embarrassing or dangerous, I would # safely de-cock it manually without using the de-cocking lever. # Because of the very few and very bizarre reports I sometimes hear # about the bad behavior of decocking levers, I don't put my trust in # decocking levers on *any* gun. I do use de-cocking levers, but never # in a situation where an unintentional discharge would be embarassing # or dangerous. Manual de-cocking is an exceedingly safer procedure. # I will back up this statement by citing Murphy and all others who # have discovered the truth of his most enlightened law of engineering # considerations. # # >Doesn't # >bother me # >since I only shoot mine on the range, but if I carried it then it would # >worry me a little. # # I sometimes carry my CZ-52 and it doesn't worry me at all because I # practice my skills in manual de-cocking procedures. The M1911 # doesn't even have a de-cocking lever. Since the M1911 doesn't need # a cocking lever to be carried and used safely, de-cocking levers are # just unneeded and superfluous extra safety features which sometimes # don't work very safely. # # Sam Heywood

...It all makes me wonder why the Tokarev isn't a more popular choice; what relatively 'cheap' pistol can compete with the bang for the bucks?

>....It all makes me wonder why the Tokarev isn't a more popular choice; >what relatively 'cheap' pistol can compete with the bang for the bucks?

>TK

IMHO, the reason why the Tokarev is not as popular as the CZ-52 is that there are not many cool accessories and after-market goodies designed for the Tokarev. For the CZ-52 you can get all kinds of different drop-in barrels, stock length, and ported and extended types, threaded and unthreaded. For the CZ-62 you can get barrels chambered for 9 X 19 mm and also for 9mm Largo. Also you can get nine-round magazines and very nice looking checkered wooden grips. I don't think you can get so many nice after-market goodies for the Tokarev. The CZ-52 isn't as ugly looking as the Tokarev. For that reason CZ-52's are much easier to dress up so that they will look nice.

Sam Heywood

I note you can easily get 9mm barrels for the Tokarev also... but what I really like is the 'Commie' 'pretty' you get with the Tok... as in works superbly; uses a powerful cartridge, and is inexpensive to the masses...<g>

IMO it is the best 'bang for the buck' pistol out there today; but alas, 'looks' reign supreme in today's society... I think it's the CZ that looks cheesy; all the Tok needs is a better grip.

TK

> ...

> ... choice; > ... bucks? > ...